Ethan Hawke Talks About First Reformed

Ethan Hawke gives the performance of his life as a priest in crisis in Paul Schrader's masterpiece, First Reformed. I met him at the Venice Film Festival in 2017.

Ethan, Paul Schrader said he chose you because you look haunted from the very beginning and therefore fit the character. Do you recognise that about yourself?

"No you never know what people see in you. I remember, years ago, a director telling me I look like I believe in God, and that there;'s some people that look like they believe in God and some people that don't. So I thought about that when Paul asked me to play this part."

Do you believe?

"I don't think it's a simple question. I think the short answer would be yes."

There is a lot in the film about the end of civilisation. How do you feel about having kids the way the world is today? 

"I'm grateful to be alive. I don't care what shape the world's in; I'm happy my parents had me. I don't think there's a parent in the history of mankind that doesn't feel fear for their children a little bit. We fear everything. It's our great resource to make ourselves sharper. Got to protect the species. And that fear extends to a larger place right now because our technological advances have gotten to such a point that we can do real harm to each other and to our world. Other generations didn't have the possibility of deforesting South America. These are new problems. But that's what's so wonderful to be part of a movie like this, because it, hopefully, will sponsor conversations like this as it gets seen throughout the world. That's the hope of making it."

Are there parts of you in the character?

"I love my character. I am so grateful for it. Have a character that even mentions some of the ideas and thoughts and themes. Paul Schrader's not the only person that's looking to the religious community for guidance and leadership, and what to do with an ever-changing world. We've gotten very little leadership from the religious community about where to place our fears and anxiety about the environment. We have a Pope right now that's really trying to do a good job with it. He's really preaching this a lot. And if the religious community could take up the baton of the environment concern, it would have a major, major impact. And so I think it's a serious question that Paul's pitching."

You seem to like playing characters that write stories as the film is unfolding. Why is that? Obviously you've written books. 

"You know, I think we all get cast in ways the directors see us. You know? We don't really control that. I'm always just trying to take the best part I can. I'm not looking for parts that people write anything. I wish I would be cast as a gladiator, but people don't see me that way."

And how did you find doing the levitation scene?

"It somehow connects to the end of  the movie. The movie's asking you to - there is an essay that Paul wrote about transcendental cinema, and we're all trying to transcend our environment, right? As human beings we're having difficulty pitching ourselves against the world. There's something about it that totally doesn't make any sense and it's crazy, and at the same time it makes perfect sense to me. You know? I remember when I first read it I thought, 'Well how's that going to work?' But the movie is strange. There is now doubt that the movie is strange.

"David Lynch has this great quote where he says the only place that's left, the uncharted territory for cinema, is things that don't make literal sense. And all our brains are always trying to make literal sense of everything, even though we can't do it with our own life. Lynch has done that to great effect and I think Paul is doing that a little too."

When did you become aware of Paul's work and what was your initial reaction?

"I saw a double feature, there was a thing called Theatre 80 in New York that doesn't exist anymore, it was kind of a cinema club, and once a year they would show Taxi Driver and Raging Bull. So I watched that as a double feature when I was about 21 or something, and I have been following. I have worked with Richard Linklater a lot and Richard talks about Paul Schrader, about his mind and his contribution to cinema. I think Mishima: A Life In Four Chapters is Rick's favourite film. So I've been aware of him for a long time now."

Do you come to work with a lot of questions? Do you question the director a lot?

"Some of them more than others, you know? Paul, at our first read-through of it, it was clear that you were meeting somebody that this film is coming out of them and in the best sense that people like to talk about art. But it was clear that this thing had been gestating in him and it was ours just to execute. Sometimes you show up on set and the directors need a lot of help or that's part of their game plan is to you create it for them. But you really could publish this screenplay. There wasn't anybody at that first read through that didn't feel like they didn't just witness a work of art."

Were you interested in the way that the film explored how a religious text can be used to justify extreme actions?

"Well religious texts have been used to justify extreme behaviour throughout mankind. I mean part of the wonderful thing about the forefathers of America is the separation of Church and State is based on  that principle alone, that any religious dogma, no matter how beatific or well meaning, can be interpreted for murderous, greedy causes. Mankind has never stopped to do that. And so that's why you need laws."

I think it's interesting that at a time when there is such a focus on Islamic terrorism, here we have a Christian character who is becoming radicalised.It is just not seen as much.  

"Yeah but you've had Christian terrorists throughout history, too. The script very beautifully lays in the Abolitionist movement, which were Christian terrorists. John Brown was killing slave owners and citing the words of Jesus Christ as he did so."

But that isn't so much part of the discourse. 

"Well it is. You see me teaching these other kids."

I mean generally. Outside the film.

"Oh yeah. It's part of the discourse of the film but not of our culture. And people find that very threatening. There's a case to be made that John Brown helped start the Civil War and helped end slavery. That's a scary discourse because the idea that there is a right kind of terrorism is scary to people. And it's something I find very interesting fodder for a dialogue in a movie. But people should be thinking because they're interesting questions."

Are you religious?

"The cinema is the Church of my choice."